In editing this transcript, the chat host, Jim Merritt [Presbyte], has eliminated "housekeeping talk," and has slightly rearranged the sequence of entries, to permit as many member questions and guest answers to be contiguous.
The chat room quickly filled to capacity, sustaining a peak of 48 attendees throughout much of the hour, and well over 40 for most of the hour. There were some technical difficulties during the first few minutes. Merritt was dropped from the system twice, and by the time he reappeared online and started this log, backup host and "greeter," Brian Carlisle [AnchorMan3], had just introduced Browne [HBrowne96].
95.09.27 6:03:27 PM Opening "Chat Log 95.09.27" for recording.
Presbyte : Harry, do you want to wade right in?
HBrowne96 : Yes. Let me have the first question.
Libertyn96 : How do you plan to save social security?
HBrowne96 : I want to sell govt assets and use the proceeds to
buy private annuities for people
now dependent on SS. They'll never have to worry
about Congress changing benefits
again. For others, they'll never have to pay the 15%
SS tax again.
GO PAT GO1 : Mr. Browne, do you feel that abortion is murder?
BOSWELLSYN : Is anyone here aware of any conservative-based
stores?
STINGRAYZR : conservative stores?
AHoward76 : Mr. Browne, what is your stand on the UN and Bosnia
-- arms embargo, etc.?
HBrowne96 : The US has no biz in any of these areas. I will
bring all the troops home and get us out
of all these areas -- Somalia, Haiti, the UN, NATO,
etc.
RRfree : ? Don't you have to sell govt assets just to pay off
the debts run up? Many $tril.
HBrowne96 : You're right. After taking care of SS. We go on to
sell more assets & hope there are
HBrowne96 : enough to get rid of the fed. debt entirely. If not,
pay it down as far as possible.
Trekbw : How did we get 40 people in here?
Harpo3 : How soon will you eliminate the national debt?
HBrowne96 : If we can get $12 trillion for the fed. assets, we
can do it in 6 years. Otherwise, there
should be a yearly principal payment in the yearly
budget.
Presbyte : May I break in with a reminder?
Presbyte : We're observing protocol, please.
Anchorman is sending you instructions as you enter
the room.
Please ask your question when called upon.
AHoward76 : Mr. Brown, what about Perot?
Why didn't he invite you to Dallas?
HBrowne96 : Perot will further split the vote of all those people
who believe gov works and want to fix
it. I hope to get the votes of all those who know
that gov doesn't work, and want to reduce
it as far as possible.
Trekbw : Clap, clap.
Libertyn96 : clap,clap
HBrowne96 : He didn't invite me to Dallas because he doesn't want
another 3rd party candidate./
AHoward76 : thank you
GO PAT GO1 : HBrowne96, you are talking just like a Republican.
Accually just like Pat Buchanan.
HBrowne96 : Buchanan talks like a libertarian. Unfortunately,
he'd probably govern like a Democrat.
AHoward76 : amen
JHunterS : When is your book going to be available?
HBrowne96 : My book will be available October 23 -- in all
stores. "Why Government Doesn't Work."
STINGRAYZR : pat is for restricted trade where libertarians are
for free trade
GO PAT GO1 : Mr. Browne, why do you beleive Mr. Buchanan will
govern like a Democrat?
Libertyn96 : pat's a socially intolerant witch-hunter
Trillian77 : Pat-- protocol!!
AnchorMan3 : *** Folks let please hold all comments until called
upon.
GO PAT GO1 : sorry
HBrowne96 : PB believes he knows what's right for people -- just
as Dole, Gramm, Clinton, & the others./
PFJW : Pat is the greatest and best hope of the Democrats.
As a liberal, I request that the Republicans
nominate him.
PLEASE!!!
JM4Liberty : Mr. Browne, what is the role of firearms in a free
society?
HBrowne96 : What people want them to be. As long as they aren't
used to threaten or coerce, there
shouldbe no restrictions on them whatsoever./
Freematt : Can you compare your tax reduction program with
Republican Steve Forbes?
HBrowne96 : I haven't seen Forbes' program. I want to eliminate
the income tax entirely, with no
replacement. This can be done by shrinking the fed.
govt to its constitutional functions.
That would leave a budget of less than 1/3 the
current. Eventually, I want a budget of $100
billion -- which would include a stronger defense
than we have now./
Freematt : How should legitimate Gov't be funded then?
HBrowne96 : The current excise taxes & tariffs bring in more than
that. At the end of my 6-year program
we could reduce those to $100 bn. But the income tax
& the SS tax go out the first year./
Presbyte : I'd like to thank everyone who has waited patiently
for their chance to speak. The queue is long.
Presbyte : But we are getting around to everyone.
JimnLes : How would you control the multiplicity of federal
police forces? specifics? No more Ruby Ridges?
HBrowne96 : The Constitution specifies only 3 fed. crimes --
piracy, treason, & counterfeiting. All
normal crime is local. There is no reason for a
fed. police force. State govts can
contract for whatever national services they need. I
would do everything possible to get
rid of the FBI, CIA, BATF, etc./
JimnLes : Great, thanks.
Trekbw : Clap, clap, clap, clap!!!!!
JHunterS : What kind of TV or Radio spots do you have airing in
Pasadena for the CityVote Debates?
GO PAT GO1 : Keep the CIA, ditch the FBI & ATF!
HBrowne96 : I'm not sure what commercials are running. I'm
running so hard I can't keep up with it
all. But my campaign staff handles all that. I know
we're running ads in NH. I'll be
campaigning in Pasadena & some other CityVote cites
during Oct. I hope to see you
at a function./
CompSpec16 : Is the electorate really ready to embrace liberty, or
is it just disillusioned with government?
HBrowne96 : It is disillusioned with govt. Realize we will never
have everyone agree with us 100%.
That isn't the way victories happen in the world of
ideas. We will get a majority sooner or
later and institute a libertarian govt that will be
an inspiration to state & local govts
everywhere. I want to see govt cut to a 1/3 its
current size as a start. That's possible i
in today's climate if the prez is determined to see
it happen -- no matter who controls
Congress. /
Deslbreath : Would you abolish the Federal Reserve and return US
to a gold standard?/
HBrowne96 : Yes and Yes. The FRS serves no useful purpose, and
does an enormous amount of harm./
Teppy : Hot LP topic in Pittsburgh: A minority of
Libertarians...
(here; not me BTW) prefer Land Value tax.
What are your thoughts? (vs. Sales Tax) /
HBrowne96 : I can't comment, as I haven't thought about it. It's
not a fed. issue, which is where I'm
preoccupied right now. Land taxes are still taxes on
someone's property. It's a question
of how large the tax load is altogether, I guess.
Sorry not to be more definite about
HBrowne96 : this one, but I'm preoccupied with federal taxation
-- where land taxes don't come into play./
Teppy : Thanks; This will probably come up at the convention.
GO PAT GO1 : This is a two part question: Do you agree with most
Americans that abortion is murder, and
do you favor a national sales tax to replace all
other Federal taxes?
HBrowne96 : Abortion: I believe until science demonstrates
otherwise that life begins at conception, so
I think abortion is wrong. However, govt doesn't
work, and so I don't want govt furthering
my aims in this area -- anymore than I would ask it
solve some other social problem.
We need to win this one by education. Ask govt to do
it and you'll make it worse -- or
have you noticed that already?
LS1776 : Ok, I'm forgetting Irwin Schiff, this guy has my
vote!!//
GO PAT GO1 : Don't you feel that abortion is murder, and that
there are already laws against murder?
HBrowne96 : Sales tax: The only virtue of a 5% sales tax is that
it is better than a 15-39% income tax.
But the plan I propose in my new book includes no
replacement for the income tax. The
sales tax would be a backup only if there aren't
enough assets to pay off the SS recipients
and liquidate the fed debt. Thanks for the Q.
RRfree : You mentioned national debt, what about SS people,
retired and disabled, lump sum for them?
Presbyte : Sorry we lost you from the queue for a moment JGelt.
Please go ahead! :-)
HBrowne96 : One more thought on the sales tax. All the proposals
now being made include huge
sales or flat taxes to replace the current system
because there are no cuts in govt. My
plan reduces govt to 1/3 its current size so that the
overall tax load is reduced
dramatically./
JGELT : You want to privatize the space program, what about
exploration? It's of value and I
JGELT : think its of value but it's not commercially viable.
HBrowne96 : Government doesn't work. If there's no commercial
value to the space program, why do it?
If there is, someone will find a way to fund it. I
don't know how, but then I don't know
how this computer I'm typing on works -- but people
who know a lot more than I do about
them have found a way to make them work -- for a
profit. The same thing would happen
with any worthwhile use for a space program./
Saugdougla : Harry, hello. How is the fund raising going so far?
Arizona ballot drive?
HBrowne96 : We've raised over a 1/3 million $ already. Plus
we've raised money for ballot drives. We'r
We're now ready to head into the second level of
fund-raising -- over a wider area.
Incidentally, about 1/3 of the funds raised so far
have come from outside the LP. We are
able to attract a lot more broad support than
previous campaigns. Our time has come. We
need to take advantage of it. Your help -- of
whatever kind -- will be very valuable. Call
the campaign office at (800) 314-8611 for literature,
to make a donation, or just to get on
the mailing list. Thanks to everyone who has helped
up to now. Your help got me into
the City Vote debates on national TV. /
Saugdougla : thank you
STINGRAYZR : if all taxes are just "theft" then why is an exise
tax or tariff more moral? Where do we draw
the line?
HBrowne96 : The object of our quest is to make govt a lot smaller
than it is now, w/o compromising
any principle to do it. The key issue is the
direction we go, not the destination. After
we've reduced govt by 2/3, we can meet in the Super
Bowl and argue for 6 months over how
much further we want to go. Until then, let's make
life a lot better than it is now./
STINGRAYZR : thanks and great to hear about your funding working
out
Wearer : Please talk about the impact of a more libertarian
world on leisure time?
NathanBaum : In the last debate, Gore skewered Perot with the
line, "that's not illegal. Do you have any hook
prepared for the cityvote debates? In particular
is there any area you intend to emphasize?
HBrowne96 : Who's next, Anchorman?
AnchorMan3 : Current queue: NathanBaum, Trillian77, SteveR 007,
KGSAM.
Presbyte : Baum is up.
Presbyte : Please wait until called upon, folks.
HBrowne96 : Yes. Tune in and see. Friday, Oct 6. I don't know
what time.
Trillian77 : An honor, Mr. Browne-- how will you reduce gov
size/spending, & how much time do you foresee it
taking
to do this?
HBrowne96 : First year: Reduce govt by half. Second year, down
to 1/3. Over 6 years, reduce to $100
billion. Repeal income tax & SS first year. If this
is too slow, help me find a faster
way./
SteveR 007 : 20-year LP activist ... give 'em hell, Harry! How
will you respond to Perot's effort ...
... to start a 3d party this late in the game, when
media question you about it? especially
... given Perot's cash being something to make it
"viable"?
HBrowne96 : Perot will split the votes of those who still have
faith that govt works. If we get the
opportunity to speak directly to the US people, we
will get the votes of the 75% who
don't want to fix govt, but want to shrink it sharply
(all the polls back this up). Your
help will make it possible for me to get that
opportunity speak directly to the people.
Help me get on TV. Help me speak before large
organizations where you have contacts.
Help me by displaying bumper stickers, yard signs,
buttons, and in letters to the editor,
HBrowne96 : mentioning the campaign on call-in shows, and the
like./
Presbyte : KGSAM go ahead, and thanks for waiting, Sam!
KGSAM : I've heard the Clinton people want him removed from
the CityVote ballot. Have you any info?
HBrowne96 : Apparently, the effort isn't succeeding. All the
candidates will be on the CityVote ballot,
but I don't know yet how many will be in the
debates./
Brinkman1 : Greetings from Lansing, Harry! Since Powell is a
carbon copy of Clinton, do you think it could
be to our advantage to have him nominated as a
Republicrat?
HBrowne96 : What I said about Perot applies to Powell as well.
All these people think they can make
govt work better. I know govt doesn't work, and want
to get rid of as much of it as
possible. Let them split up the "faith in govt" vote
as finely as there are candidates.
I'll take the rest./
Brinkman1 : Also, do you get more press in one month when the
"Independence Party"
fails to get ballot access in California and the LP
has it?
HBrowne96 : As to the press, we haven't sought it yet. We're
starting now. It won't be easy, we have
HBrowne96 : to make ourselves newsworthy. Fortunately, a lot of
very creative people are helping us
in this campaign -- good writers, thinkers, idea
people, publicity people. /
FGJ4RSR : Mr. Browne What is your position about Gay Civil
Rights and the 14th. Amendment (Equal Protections)
Blacks, Women, the Religious are all protected but
not Gay people.
We (gays) should be protected under the equal
protections clause of the 14th amend, too.
or will you push to repeal the Civil Rights Act of
'64?/
JM4Liberty : Mr. Browne, what will you do to end the "War on
Drugs?"/
JHunterS : What exactly would you do about current non-violent
crimes laws - Drugs, Prostitution, etc.?
HBrowne96 : Gay people: I believe everyone should be equal in
the eyes of the govt. But you can't make
everyone equal in the eyes of the individual. Each
person must be free to decide for
himself whom he'll associate with. Otherwise, we'll
all be forced into relationships we
don't like. I don't favor extending
anti-discrimination "protection" to gays. I favor
removing it from everyone. Let each person decide
for himself whom he'll deal with, buy
from, sell to, associate with, love, cherish, and
honor. Only then will peace come to civil
society. Now we have groups jostling with each other
to obtain the govt's blessing to get
"rights" or entitlements from other groups --
creating enormous group animosities./
MuniSavyon : *clap *clap*
JHunterS : What exactly would you do about current non-violent
crimes laws?
Libertyn96 : clap clap
FGJ4RSR : I heartily agree!!
Libertyn96 : right on hbrown!
HBrowne96 : If we get all the non-violent people out of prison,
there will room for the thugs -- w/o
having early releases, plea bargains, etc. I want to
see an end to diversion of law
enforcement resources to chasing vice, drugs, etc.
Use the police to protect us from
those who would harm us -- not those who are engaging
in acts we don't happen to
want for ourselves./
JHunterS : I agree and the police will have more resources where
we need them!!!
JM4Liberty : what actions will you take as president to end the
drug war?
CarlosJHR : Could you elaborate more on what the federal
government's constitutional functions are?
Specifically, if a state denies liberty, ought not
the feds intervene?
HBrowne96 : The Constititution asks the fed govt to defend us
against foreign enemies and guarantee a
republican form of govt to each state (i.e., protect
against insurrection). There's little
else specified in the Constititution -- no welfare,
crime control, housing, SS, education,
transportation, not even the regulation of
individuals or companies./
HBrowne96 : Drug war: I will immediately call off all the fed.
law-enforcement agencies, and then
pressure Congress (using my veto on other matters) to
repeal all federal drug laws. I
will, on my 1st day in office, pardon everyone
convicted of a fed. drug non-violent drug
charge -- as well as everyone convicted of tax
evasion, fed. gun control crimes, and other
non-violent crimes. I don't need the approval of
Congress for that./
JHunterS :
JM4Liberty : *clap* *clap* *clap*
RFGENX66 : How do you respond to charges that your way will
throw people into the streets?
I'll see you Fri and Sat in West Virginia!
HBrowne96 : People ARE in the streets already. My way won't add
any to that list. My way won't
prevent a single soul from helping anyone who needs
help. State govts also will still
be free to do anything they want -- although I hope
they'll see the light. We bring a
message of hope to anyone on welfare: We are going to
tear down the Berlin Wall of govt
programs, regs, and taxes that have locked them in a
lifetime of desperation. We are going
to unleash a prosperity that will lift all people to
a better life.
HBrowne96 : Oops. Forgot to say: /
CompSpec16 : What have you changed your mind about since you wrote
_How I Found Freedom..._? I notice
CompSpec16 : you're married now. /
HBrowne96 : Yes, and happily so. My philosophy remains as is.
But, naturally, I have grown in the
past 20 years and some of my techniques and
strategies have changed. Forgive me for
not answering at greater length, but this forum has
to end within 36 hours./
KerouacMan : ::::waving to Pamela behind Harry::::
Presbyte : Eye On Gov, please go ahead. (We have time for one
or two more Qs, to go by the schedule :-(
Eye On Gov : How can we overcome the media's bias against our
party . Alot is being said about the
opportunity for a 3rd party but noy much about us
Libs.
HBrowne96 : We need to be very creative. As I said earlier, we
have a lot of very good people working
on this. Anything you can do to get me on radio/TV
shows, press interviews, etc. will
be very helpful. We haven't sought press attention
before now. We've been laying the
groundwork for the general campaign while getting LP
support. Now we're ready to go
after the media. For example, I'm appearing at a
luncheon of National Review editors in
HBrowne96 : two weeks, and there will be many more such opps.
Eye On Gov : I'm here to help..
JHunterS : Try Talk Back Live @ CNN in Atlanta , They had Nancy
Lord on recently
HBrowne96 : Thanks Eye on Gov and JHUnter. We appreciate it./
Call us at (800) 314-8611 if you can help in any way,
or if you want literature.
JM4Liberty : How can I get a seat at the CityVote debate in
Pasadena?
HBrowne96 : Call the campaign office. Large donors get first
consideration. (Surprise!)/
NathanBaum : I'm a good writer and unusually smart. What should
I do to help
HBrowne96 : Nathan, Please call the campaign office. Thanks for
the offer. /
HBrowne96 : The blessings of liberty touch everyone. And liberty
is America's destiny.
Presbyte : Well, that's about all the time we have for this
evening. This is the fastest hour we have ever
Presbyte : spent in this chat, and I would like to thank Harry
Browne for such an enjoyable evening.
JM4Liberty : Thanks very much, Harry! Give 'em hell!
HBrowne96 : Let's make this a free country again. Thanks for
coming tonight.
AHoward76 : Thank you Harry, you have my vote!
Trekbw : Very good.
KerouacMan : ::::applause
Presbyte : And thanks to all of you, who joined us here!
Eye On Gov : Your very encouraging, Harry
Doggoneme : clap clap clap clap clap clap
Trillian77 : Thank you Mr. Browne! Got our votes!!!
Brinkman1 : CLAP! CLAP! CLAP!
Saugdougla : You have my support, Harry!!!!
RRfree : You got my vote!
Trekbw : :::::applause clap, clap, clap
STINGRAYZR : the lib's scare people. Shouldnt we have a slow cozy
feeling plan to reintro freedom?
JimnLes : I agree, Stingray. We scare people to death.
JHunterS : Kick there a@#! Harry
LibertyLvr : LOUD CLAPS!!!!!
MuniSavyon : Thank you, Mr. Browne ..
SteveR 007 : Keep up your fiery spirit, Harry!
Libertyn96 : got my vote too!:::::::applause::::::::
EGBrady : *Hooray for Harry!******
KerouacMan : WOO WOO WOO WOO WOO!!!!!
AnchorMan3 : *** Conference protocol is over. :D
Presbyte : I will be posting information on how you can vote for
Harry in electronic straw polls on the Internet.
KerouacMan : GIVE EM HELL, HARRY!
Trillian77 : clap clap clap
RFGENX66 : Get an appetite youll have some good Italian Friday
night in Clarksburg WV Harry!
Trekbw : :D?
Libertyn96 : :::::::applause::::::
EGBrady : ****applause****
JM4Liberty : Anybody interested in privately-funded space
colonization visit the SpaceLaunch Foundation
at http://www.spacelaunch.org
LS1776 : Hear hear, Browne for President.
Presbyte : Remember that libertarians get together in this chat
room every Wednesday night at 9PM ET (6PM PT)
I hope to see you next week, too.
NathanBaum : Harry is kicking butt on the stardot strawpoll. I
don't think this is an accident. People on the web
are exposed to lib ideaas, people elsewhere aren't,
and the difference is notable.
Trillian77 : YAY!!!
Trekbw : Cutting gov't by 2/3 is interesting, but he will need
at least 60 Republicans/libertarians in the senate
and a lot more conservatives than are in there right
now.
KGSAM : Well done.
BRUCE1789 : im with u harry....go go go
EGBrady : To Hell with 'GO PAT GO!' :-)
Trillian77 : **standing ovation**
JM4Liberty : Also, visit Liberty Renaissance at
http://www.libren.com
Presbyte : Thanks again to all, and good night!
LOG IS OFF.
Trillian77 : Night, Pres! Thanks!
95.09.27 7:02:15 PM Closing Log file.